An Interview with Tetsu "Tez" Okano - the Mastermind behind Cult Dreamcast RPG Segagaga

There isn't a day that goes by in the Sega Dreamcast community where someone doesn't ask when an English fan translation of Hitmaker's 2001 Japan-exclusive Segagaga —the RPG simulation title where you run Sega— is releasing. Since the mid-2000s, a handful of translation projects have been announced, only to inevitably fizzle out, leading some to go as far as to brand the game as "cursed" (see also: “the final boss” and “the Half-Life 3” of Dreamcast translations). But what many may not realise is that rounding up the perfect group of persevering translators to see a translation through to fruition is the least of Segagaga's problems. The biggest hurdle facing any translation patching attempt is actually the way the game was originally programmed to draw text from the Dreamcast's BIOS, as opposed to using a font sheet, like many (successfully translated!) Dreamcast games do. While the core of this issue has been solved by some exceptionally talented hackers in the Dreamcast fan community, there is still much to be worked on.

Photo of the regular Segagaga release. Photo: doceggfan.

But it's only natural that out of all the games, an English translation of Segagaga would be the most sought after by fans of Sega and the Dreamcast alike. Segagaga satirises Sega itself, providing an entertaining tribute to its diverse and beloved back catalogue of franchises and characters, while also not pulling any punches in its portrayal of the then-struggling corporation's various business missteps. Some great tributes have followed since, such as the animated series Sega Hard Girls, and ensemble games like All-Stars Racing Transformed. However, through its brutal honesty and self-awareness, it is Segagaga which stands out the most, not only as a fitting love letter to Sega, but also as a prime example of the rebellious nature the corporation was known for during its time as a console manufacturer.

When it came to masterminding Segagaga, there was truly only one man for the job. Step up Tetsu Okano, aka Tez Okano, aka "Zolger Tetsu", aka "Ichizou Zoruge", aka the director of the best Astro Boy game. Known for his unconventional approach to everything from video games to manga, Okano-san truly took a risk when he set out to create a game that poked fun at the very company he worked for, and we are elated to reveal that we recently got the chance to talk to him all about his career, and of course, Segagaga.

Screenshot of Segagaga. Credit: CDRomance.

Translator extraordinaire Duralumin —who previously assisted with our Kenji Tosaki interview— returns once more to translate Okano-san's answers from Japanese. Laurence Goodchild also deserves a shout out for assisting with the questions and supplying the lovely photos of the Segagaga launch event, scanned from issue 16 of Italian Dreamcast magazine Dreamcast Arena.

But this wouldn't be an interview with Tez Okano if it didn't diverge from the traditional format in some way! When asking Okano-san about his earliest memories of video games, his reply was... a comic? Well, in case you didn't know, in Japan, Okano-san published an autobiographical manga called "8-Bit Chronicles" which covers his formative years as a child discovering the burgeoning world of video games. He supplied us with the first two chapters in Japanese, and Duralumin —who translates manga professionally— proceeded to translate them into English. We have uploaded them to a Google Drive folder so you can read them, which is something I implore you do. The comic is not only an awesome homage to the golden age of video games, but also very amusing.

A small preview of the first page of 8-Bit Chronicles, as translated by Duralumin.

Finally, Okano-san wanted us to stress to you, our audience, that the answers you see below from him are his recollections of events that happened over two decades ago. He wanted to make sure that we clarify that he is not speaking officially on Sega's behalf, just recounting his own memories of the time. With that disclaimer out of the way — the interview!

Photo of Tez Okano. Credit: Sega Retro.

DCJY: Thank you for talking with us, Okano-san! We thought it was only right to start at the beginning, so what are your earliest memories of video games?

Tez Okano: When this is published, I hope you'll share the first chapter of my manga, 8-Bit Chronicles. It covers Space Invaders, Galaxian... I could talk about those games all day! But this is probably the easiest way to understand the story of why I, as well as many other Japanese kids in the late '70s, fell in love with video games.

What led you into a career in the games industry, and how did you eventually join Sega?

When I was still in my college years, I made my debut as a manga artist through Kodansha. However, working as a manga artist, you don't really have any security once your series is over, so I found myself enticed by the gleam of the rising star that was the gaming industry. And of course, Sega at the time was still young, and seeking unconventional talent.

"Morning" magazine, where Tez Okano's early manga work was published. His name can be seen at the top of the woman's right shoulder.

So let's get into Segagaga. It has been documented that you developed the game in secret for two years before presenting it to Sega. What was your reasoning for keeping it a secret?

Many places have a particular culture around satire, parody, and irony, Japan included. However —I understand you’re from England— irony is much less familiar to us in Japan than it is in the UK. And while Sega was a pretty big umbrella, it had no shortage of people who would take issue with self-deprecating parody. You'll also notice there's never been any effort to make, say, a Namcococo or Nintendododo, for example, and that should tell you something. That being said, Sega has always prided itself on doing the crazy stuff that no one else could pull off, and the Segagaga project explored that philosophy to the limit. But, it just wasn't the kind of thing that you wanted to make a show of around the company, and invite all that scrutiny and risk the project's survival.

Was the secret easy to keep?

[Yes], but that's really because I was the only one inside Sega working on it. We never could have done it in-house with the budget I was given, but [Segagaga co-developers] Thunderstone Japan managed to deliver on my demands, no matter how insane.

When I finally presented the project to the president for approval, he thought I was joking.

But it was ultimately well received by the higher-ups at Sega?

Oh, they loved it. They did think I was joking, but they thought it was a great gag. 

I had to go through it twice with them to explain that I wasn't kidding, and that it was an actual idea for a game.

Segagaga's combat system. Credit: Obscure Video Games.

On Twitter, you specifically thanked then-Hitmaker President Hisao Oguchi, Tadashi Takezaki and Taku Sasahara for backing Segagaga. What roles did they play in the process of launching the game?

Let me provide a little background for this one... I joined the company in 1992. This was probably when Sega was at its most adventurous, and was bringing on all kinds of eccentric talent.

I was also an unconventional choice, but that was my selling point. However, in practice, it turned out to be difficult to translate unconventional ideas into commercial success, so after eating a big loss on my debut game Dragon Ball Z V.R.V.S., and going on to work on Rail Chase 2 and Dirt Devils, I was in a tough position, without any standout achievements to show for my time. 

I like to imagine that Segagaga was President Oguchi's way of extending a generous last chance to me, but I wouldn't get much budget or technical resources, so I had to make something work just on the concept alone. I needed an idea that would sell itself, and I hit on the concept that would become Segagaga: "What if we made a game out of Sega?"

I think anyone could have come up with the idea itself, but not as many people would actually have gone through with it, and the odds of doing so at Sega, of all places, were even fewer, so the whole project absolutely threaded the needle.

Other than the problem of making it, we also had no idea of how to sell Segagaga, so we begged Mr. Takezaki, who worked with Sega Direct at the time, to help us out. Also, since the content of the game was going to be walking a fine line, President Oguchi assigned Mr. Sasahara from public relations to make sure we could actually safely release the game.

Oh yes, you previously mentioned on your Twitter that the game was checked considerably by a publicist before launch. You said that a lot of elements were removed. Are you able to reveal any of the specifics of what was removed?

It's possible I might still have a backup somewhere of some of that material, but since Sega holds the rights, and they were the ones who decided to cut it, I don't think I would be in any position to share it.

We're aware at least that Segata Sanshiro and a Ferrari from OutRun had to be cut due to licensing issues.

I'll have to refrain from commenting on Segata Sanshiro or the Ferrari. 

Anyway, you know how when the Sega building opens up, it’s a really minor pair of characters —the Bad Brothers from Golden Axe— that pop out? And how we made the weird shrimp that makes the revving engine sounds a Kuruma Prawn? Kuruma prawns are very widely consumed in Japan. Did you know "kuruma" can also mean "automobile" in Japanese? Just some fun facts for you to think about.

The Bad Brothers rising from the Sega HQ. Credit: Juice Hedgehog.

Regarding characters that did make the cut, we've read that you had to ask Yuji Naka himself for permission to use Sonic the Hedgehog and Alex Kidd in the game. 

I'm the same as you guys, I love Mr. Naka too. He's a purely creative guy, so I had this impression of him that if I just laid it out and told him what I wanted to do, he would at least hear me out, and thankfully, I was right.

So, I told him quite frankly, "I'm making a game about Sega itself. Naturally, I'd like Sonic to be in it too."

He just said, "Well okay, just don't do anything weird with him."

And just like that, we got the okay.

Alex Kidd looks on as Sega's new mascot Sonic gets all the attention. Credit: Sonic Wiki Zone.

What inspired the concept of a “Sega simulation” RPG game?

The "Sega Simulation" RPG mechanics were entirely thought up by me. Mostly because if we had spent time deliberating on it, we would have run out of money, and quick. 

It was this ridiculous concept of smashing together RPG and sim elements to distract from how little money we had to make the whole thing. The [game’s] director, [Hiroaki Suzuki], and lead programmer [Tomochika Arai], worked their tails off to deliver on it. I don't think I've made it up to them to this day.

It was no secret that Sega was going through financial problems when Segagaga was in development. What was the atmosphere among Sega employees during this period, and how did this influence the project?

I was a part of Hitmaker, which was originally the AM3 division. The AM [arcade] teams were all doing pretty well at the time, but the CS [console] division was struggling with the Dreamcast. This was about the time we ran the self-deprecatory "Will Sega ever recover?" ads, which a little birdie may have told me was the brainchild of one Yasushi Akimoto, who had been called in as a friend of then-chairman [Isao Okawa].

So, the situation was this: AM Development was doing well, CS Development was fighting the good fight, and an outside agent had just swept in with an oh-so-brilliant promotional campaign that kneecapped the lot of us. Just try to keep those three factors in mind when you picture how things were at the time.

Left: "Will Sega ever recover?"
Right: "November: Dreamcast strikes back."

I do want to clarify that, as far as I can recall, both the AM and CS divisions had our reservations about the ads, and didn't really align ourselves with the direction they took. But, since we had already been tarred with the same brush, Segagaga was conceived as a parody that could work off this perception of Sega being fatalistic and self-aware.

As we kept working on Segagaga, the Dreamcast kept on struggling. When Sega finally announced that it was throwing in the towel, Segagaga got a ton of exposure from the press (especially the entertainment rags), who essentially took the game's story at face value, which thankfully saved us having to spend the money to promote it ourselves.

In terms of how people inside the company felt about Segagaga, I think it was mostly, "good grief, what a kook", but I do know there were some who were not fans of the idea.

How did Toei Animation get involved? And what was it like working with them on the animated scenes for the game?

My debut title for Sega, Dragon Ball V.R.V.S. was a big flop for us, but [Kozo Morishita] at Toei Animation really liked it. So, when I asked him about doing animation for Segagaga, he readily agreed, and they delivered some great animation that was very clearly a cut above what we actually paid for it.

I think the animated portions play a big part in Segagaga coming across as good as it does. In the last month of development, I remember frantically trying to edit all the cutscenes on a Power Mac G4 I had to buy myself, because we only had about six minutes of actual animation to fill 23 minutes worth of cutscenes.

Mr. Morishita is the Chairman of Toei Animation now. I'd really love to show him my latest work, Final Re:Quest.

Legend has it that the game was only afforded a tiny marketing budget, and that most of it was spent on a Segagaga-branded wrestling mask. Who produced the mask?

Mr. Sasahara in the promotions department knew a guy who actually made real wrestlers' masks, so we got them to make it. I drew the design.

Left: Segagaga mask design mockup that Okano-San sent us.
Right: English translation by Duralumin. 

(Click to enlarge!)

Do you still have the mask?

The mask belonged to Sega, so I'm sure it still rests reverently on top of all the other Segagaga stuff in a box somewhere.

You wore the mask to promote Segagaga at four signing events held in Akihabara. What can you tell us about the signing events? They looked to be good fun from the photos we’ve seen!

Oh, man, they were a lot of fun. I love Akihabara, so running an event like that was a dream come true. But usually, you really only want to do it once (laughs). Akihabara is basically 500 meters across, but to run the same event four times, in four different places, all in one day... call it crazy, call it amazing, either way I'll never forget it.

I'll tell you one thing though that really sticks with me. We went to one store that had actually gone and made these life-size standees of the Segagaga characters, and we had a great time. The very next day, I was back in Akihabara for a personal errand, and what did I see but those very same standees, savagely crushed and folded and dumped out back with the trash. What do you make of that? Well, let me tell you what that signified; Segagaga was a celebration of everything Sega. But even with all the buzz around it, it was landing at the end of the Dreamcast's life cycle, so retailers just didn't see it being a big seller. The fantastic employees at that store went out of their way to build those amazing cutouts, but the second our event was over, they were just cardboard, taking up space for the next thing, and out the back they unceremoniously went.

I was heartbroken to see them like that. It was genuinely heart-wrenching. That's when I promised myself; one day I'd make a game, and it wouldn't join them. They'd keep it displayed in stores for months on end. Good thing I went on to make Astro Boy: Omega Factor.

Those standees would probably fetch a pretty penny from collectors today... if only they hadn't been thrown in the trash!

Tez Okano (with mask) pictured with Segagaga composer/sound designer, Tsuyoshi Kaneko.

Kaneko-san signing autographs.

Segagaga launched with a collector’s edition that came with some really awesome goodies, including pin badges commemorating Sega’s history. It is highly treasured by those who own it. How did this collector's edition come to be?

The fantastic collector's edition owes itself to Mr. Sasahara in the promotions department, who suggested we make one. The designer who actually did the work was [Nozomi Yamada]. They're both very talented, so I mostly let them take care of it, and focused on the game itself.

The beautiful pins included in the Segagaga collector's edition. Photo: AnimatedAF.

For over two decades, among the Dreamcast’s many Japanese exclusives, Segagaga is the game that has been most in demand to receive an English translation. Has this appetite for Segagaga in Europe and North America surprised you?

Honestly, I'm amazed. I've been hearing from dedicated fans outside Japan for probably ten years, now. I'm sure it's probably overhyped as some kind of visionary title, but I'm truly grateful that everyone could pick out the genuine love for Sega that was hiding behind all the jabs and jokes.

I think it would be fantastic if someone could secure the rights to a port of Segagaga, so the game could live again.

That would be amazing. But that does make us wonder... Are you aware if there were any plans or discussion back in 2001 to bring Segagaga to the West, or was that not considered whatsoever?

Unfortunately, my impression is that it was never really considered. This was a game that parodied a very specific context for Sega and the Dreamcast, and at the time, we assumed that context simply wouldn't scan outside of Japan, and the game just wouldn't sell.

I'm very proud that those of you in the wider world have grown to appreciate this quirky little love letter penned in a far-away land, silliness and sarcasm and all.

***

I want to thank Tez Okano once more for taking the time to chat with us. If you’re intrigued about what Okano-san is up to these days, he now heads up HUGA Inc., a video game and media studio. They are currently working on Final Re:Quest, a crossmedia project which includes manga and animated shows. It is heavily inspired by the classic 8-Bit RPGs of old, and prominently features appropriate spritework to match. The latest instalment, Final Re:Quest: The Next World, is an animated movie which is due to come out at some point in the future that will take the series into the 16-bit realm. Two trailers for the movie released in December on HUGA's YouTube channel, so check them out!

Also thanks once again to Duralumin, and Lozz... and thanks to Derek Pascarella (for technical jargon assistance - this time it was regarding the stuff surrounding the font-hacking hurdles of Segagaga). And finally, I must thank you for reading - let us know your thoughts in the comments below, or via one of our social media channels.

Oh yeah, did we mention that Segagaga takes place in the current year 2025? Does that mean this is the year we’ll finally see that much-anticipated English translation?! Credit: Humbert21videos.

Related interviews:

• Kenji Tosaki (former development manager of Sega of Japan)
• Bernie Stolar (former President of Sega of America 1996-1999)
• Peter Moore (former President of Sega of America 2000-2003)
• Giles Thomas (former Marketing Director of Sega of Europe)
• David Perkinson (former Sega Sports Producer)