DreamPod - Episode 33: Elysian Shadows

Music in this episode comes from Elemental Gimmick Gear. You can find Elysian Shadows on YouTube here, and the 'anti-Falco' jpeg image discussed can be found here. As ever, thanks to all of our Patreon backers for supporting the podcast - our campaign page can be found here. Be sure to follow Elysian Shadows on Twitter, Facebook and the official Elysian Shadows website

If you like what you've heard on this episode, it would mean the world to us if you could leave us an iTunes review of any denomination! Thanks.


vj kmr said...

so let me get this straight, for the past year + half all they've made is the beta of a vmu emulator which isnt even out yet. and they have no idea when they'll have a team or when the game will release. yet they talk condescendingly about how others dont know how to kickstart. its easy to promise all the features on earth has but hard to prove it. this game is late with not only no end in sight but no idea when it will even have people working on it. yet they still arent offering backers refunds and are taking preorders. no wonder people are mad as fuck, they are right for thinking that. this game better release soon and with every single thing they promised or this will go down as the biggest kickstarter failure in the history of video games.

Tom Charnock said...

Thanks for your comment and for listening. Valid points, but there are hundreds of people who have backed the Kickstarter (including most of us here at the DCJY) and who are prepared to wait. Naturally, if you really do want to get a refund then I'm sure if you contact Falco via the ES website he'd listen to your concerns.

Falco Girgis said...

Wow. Aren't you fucking adorable...

So let me get this straight. We have already completed an entire commercial-grade cross-platform SDK for Win/Mac/Linux/Steam/Dreamcast/OUYA/iOS/Droid which could be released tomorrow if we were to just roll over and give up/die... Not to mention all of the progress on the game itself which we have demonstrated time and again on YouTube and in our updates... But yes, we have basically done nothing for the past year and half. Because no Kickstarter in the history of Kickstarters has ever been late...

PS: ElysianVMU IS out. You can download it here: http://forums.elysianshadows.com/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=9171

I HIGHLY recommend the Chao Garden. It'll be a nice avenue for you to redirect your misdirected teenage angst and will give you something productive to do with your spare time, rather than belittling the hard work of others.

81Zero said...

Listening to this today has really piqued my interest in ES. Great episode.

Falco Girgis said...

Thanks so much, 81Zero, glad you enjoyed it! :)

DCGX said...

Falco - I backed the limited edition of ES right away (and pretty much every other DC project since Redux on or off Kickstarter), and I understand the extreme frustration you and Patrick have had to endure. And while I don't agree with much of what vj in the first comment says, he does have a point about the way you speak about/to your backers or someone that is annoyed.

I, like most, have been patient and know you guys have to do what you have to do to recollect yourselves after the low moments with personnel, etc. after the Kickstarter completed, and move forward with the game. But even I felt jilted by the ElysianVMU announcement because 1) it does take time/resources away from the main project, and 2) part of the reason for backing the DC version of any game is for the VMU goodies. That's not to say the VMU emulation shouldn't come to PC, etc., but it seems premature (and frankly like a slap in the face to DC backers, even though it obviously isn't intended to be) to create and release it while the Kickstarted game still isn't near finished.

But back to how backers are spoken too. You've said this is how you are, okay that's fine (I've accepted it long ago), and we all know you're frustrated through this process. Again we understand, but more often than not when you address the public, or specifically backers, about anything, you come off as lashing out. It's like we don't have the right to ask about progress on ES anymore. And after two years it feels more like disrespect than general frustration venting.

I'm not trying to start anything, or rile you up, and it's text on the Internet so maybe I'm coming off as attacking you (that's not my intention), but I'm just trying to convey how people on the other side may feel when you get angry about a couple/small group of backers, because it looks like you're yelling at the entire group of backers/supporters as you speak in generalities.

I know you aren't PR people, and you've said it yourself many times before, but a calm demeanor and non-condescending response to someone can go a long way. Please re-read your response to vj and you can't tell me that doesn't just add fuel to the fire.

Da Burns said...

Why even bother DCGX. This says it all: https://i.imgsafe.org/af3b861.png
This project was interesting when it launched but now has become over a year of breaked promises, lies, and shitting and bitching on backers. People are mad and all he does is shit on them. Now he says he is waiting on contracts and he doesnt know when whatever this shit is will happen, so hes basically saying he has no control or idea what is even going on with his game, when its already fucking late.
This kickstarter has been either complete inability or complete fabrication and neither are acceptable. And a VMU emulator of all things isnt an acceptable update to forgive being months and months and months late on an update and late on the game itself. Not to mention every other reward that has been promised.

Falco Girgis said...

Honestly, I don't know where all of this "lashing out at backers" talk comes from. In my YouTube videos and in updates, I'm not lashing out at any backers, and every update I have done nothing but apologize for our silence on Kickstarter. I spend my entire day in a 70+ person chat with Kickstarter backers where I humbly help them and selflessly give out source code all day to help them with my own projects. My "lashing out" has been at random haters and people who have no idea who we are yet criticize us on 4chan and Reddit... Considering it looks like the good Sir VJ signed up for a new account just to make the above post, I highly doubt he even backed ES. I do not disrespect backers unless they are being totally unreasonable (like VJ). If you look back at all of my posts you should definitely see this. I have NEVER been disrespectful in a Kickstarter update made directly to my backers... It has only been in a Youtube video response to a thread made by an ex team mate slandering us on Reddit to a bunch of people who don't even know who we are.

Perhaps you're right. Maybe it does seem like I'm yelling at "backers," but that was never my intention, nor have I ever intentionally done that without being personally attacked or provoked. I wake up and live with the fact that I owe every one of you a debt every day of my life, and I have that weighing on my conscious. I try very hard to do right by all of you. If you were to personally message me on Facebook, Twitter, or Skype asking me for help with anything, and you mentioned you were a backer, I SWEAR TO YOU, I would drop everything and help you out with whatever you needed.

As far as the VMU emulator goes, I don't think you're being fair. It was a very fun little side-project for me that I literally completed from start to finish in just over 2 weeks, in between also working on ES. I'm already back to full-time ES since the little beta launch has turned up no serious issues on any platform, and it'll be released in a more open manner in the next Kickstarter update.

You aren't necessarily thinking about it correctly. In my down time, would you rather me do absolutely nothing like sit on my ass and watch TV, or would you rather me do something that is indirectly benefitting ES and is definitely benefitting the Dreamcast-scene as a whole? I saw it as an additional way to give back to the community and something productive to do during downtime when I was too tired to work on ES but too lively to just sit on my ass and do nothing, and honestly a lot of people have been really happy about its release.

Da Burns, comments like yours are why I am the way I am.

Falco Girgis said...

Also Da Burns, as I've already addressed, the post on on the left as the Elysian Shadows page was not even made by me. It was made by a former team mate who has since been removed from the team, and we were all very pissed off at him for being that disrespectful to backers. I was ashamed to even be associated with that post. It's disgusting.

I am actually really glad you posted that, as it demonstrates partially why I'm frustrated. Look at how respectful I was to the guy on the right. Then look at how everyone automatically assumes I am the poster on the left, even though we were and still are obviously a team, and especially at that date there were about 6 people with access to the page. All blame defaults to me just because I'm the one who actually steps up and communicates with our backers.

PS: Daniel Nugent was given a full refund by my PERSONALLY, from my own separate savings account so that it wouldn't take away from the money pool the rest of the team was living off of. I was and still am a man of my word, and just because our Kickstarter is late does not change that fact.

Falco Girgis said...

Also, just FYI, the ElysianVMU concept was included in the Kickstarter campaign as a stretch goal that we were nowhere near hitting... I don't think it's fair to be disgruntled at me for delivering a Kickstarter stretch goal in my spare time that wasn't even funded.

Green Dad said...

It wasn't until fairly recently that I've become intrigued with ES once again. I remember waaaay back when I remember it first being announced on GameFaqs (oh the good old GameFaqs days...) by Falco.

I just couldn't support it given the developers attitude (just wait...) It came across as far too unprofessional, far too profanity-laced, and far from a realistic project.

Each and every story over the years that has come out has kind of made me think through all of this again.

Especially back in the day, we were not really too educated on indie game development. The ES YouTube videos were raw. I, as many gamers, were used to seeing CG videos of games in development and publishers filling your head with unrealistic expectations and fake imagery.

Recently (almost four years ago) my friends and I started recording an album. At first, we thought "This is going to be great! I mean, almost all of the songs are already written, we just need to re-record them!"

A year later we had 4 songs done. THEN, a friend of ours who is a drummer wanted to be a part of it. So we thought "This is going to be great! I mean, all we have to do is record live drums instead of programing them!"

About two years later we have 5 songs done.

The reason I bring this up is that I am Falco now. I am profanity laced and pissed off that absolutely no one in the world, and I mean NO ONE, understands or appreciates how much work goes into something such as this. Especially when you have literally ZERO pay off for years.

So, I am going to buy ES. At the very least, these guys deserve some cash for living their dream and trying to bring it to us.

To all of those still judging ES, especially if you are judging the guys doing the work, take a look at yourself and ask what you've created that took the amount of work, dedication, and sacrifice to do that something like this takes.

Regarding the "distractions" such as EVMU, it HAS to happen. An artist or creator HAS to take a break. If it wasn't for that, Falco may have just given up a while ago.

Since first hearing of ES, I have grown a lot as an artist, a consumer, and a gamer. Falco has been through more than probably any of us in their creative journey. I suggest most of you try to grow as individuals as well. I've certainly given money to much worse causes.

Falco Girgis said...

Wow... Green Dad, your post really made my day, man.

I usually start a work day by wasting the first half hour to hour reading posts from people who are angry at me for whatever reason and having to defend myself and ES, usually from people who as you said, have no idea how hard we actually work or that we're the good guys who want nothing more than to deliver to them exactly what they paid for... I actually grew to loathe refreshing this page every morning to see what the latest negative post was, despite the fact that I really enjoyed myself in the podcast and was initially extremely excited to share it with the world...

Today was totally different thanks to your post.

You have nothing but my respect for your work with your album. If there's ever anything I can do to help promote you guys once you're done or ready, please don't hesitate to ask. It's literally the least I can do as one creator to another after you supported my own work.

You are also spot-on with the ElysianVMU thing as well. Sometimes it's the little things like that that help keep you interested and passionate in your field and also help you to grow as a developer. I had always admired emulator authors as a child as insane gods with some magical knowledge of hardware that seemed so far beyond me... I had secretly always wanted to be one of the people who could do that, so this project really was something my soul needed, and it has only further helped ES.

ElysianVMU is using the same LibGyro cross-platform framework I wrote to power ES on the half-dozen platforms it runs on. That's why ElysianVMU is targeting so many platforms as well (and why I was able to develop it so quickly). It's using the same rendering system, the same debug logging engine, the same input subsystem, the same audio subsystem, etc. The release has actually turned up a few minor bugs within common code, shared by ES that I have had the opportunity to fix. By beta testing EVMU, people have indirectly been beta testing quite a few aspects of ES itself.

Tom Charnock said...

That was a really cool comment from Green Dad. Every other day I wonder why I bother keeping this bullshit blog or podcast going. But then without it maybe these interactions would never occur.

Dan Bechard said...

Fantastic podcast, guys! Thanks for the great coverage and well-prepared research and questions. Looking forward to this game and the awesome tools that are coming with it!